QUICK LINKS
Soulforce: A Sad Commentary
You may not be familiar with the organization Soulforce, but you will be hearing about them because what they call their “Equality Ride” will soon be coming to a Christian college near you.
For the second year, they are touring the nation with busloads of people visiting colleges, “with policies,” that they perceive “silence or exclude lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender students.”
Their 2007 tour is underway and is scheduled to be in both Oregon and Washington.
The West tour includes stops at Seattle Pacific University and Northwest University (Kirkland) on April 11 and a visit to George Fox University (Newberg, OR) on April 5th.
In each of their stops, the reports are somewhat the same. Their leaders claim to meet with administrators and students, and then they usually report that the administrators are hostile and uncooperative to them and the students are excited to interact with them.
Their mission statement seems to be to obtain “Freedom for lesbian, gay, bisexual and transgender people from religious and political oppression through the practice of relentless nonviolent resistance.”
Their tour started earlier this week with their first visit to the Wisconsin Lutheran College on March 13th. The report they filed on their website said, “The administrators were unsympathetic, but the students were excited to speak with us.” They describe scenes where a student will bravely step forward and join them in prayer, “despite the school officials’ outright refusal to do so.”
What actually happened, according to people who were there and the police reports, is that administrators met with the Equality Ride people on Monday and asked them not to disturb the classes and activities. There was no agreement for them to come on campus so when they came on campus, six of them were arrested.
I’m sure this scene will be repeated in some way as they continue to presume upon Christian colleges across the country.
What is ironic to me is that while they proclaim their quest for freedom, they in their own way are intruding on the freedom of those people of faith and their churches who sacrificially built and sustain these colleges because they want their children educated in an environment that embraces the Bible and biblical principles and teaching. Why do these private schools have to endure this kind of inappropriate challenge to their freedom? In the name of freedom.
My visit to Soulforce website revealed that they don’t actually practice the kind of freedom they demand from others.
Unlike our own Faith & Freedom website, visitors are met with layers of restrictions as to how they can even post a comment. In fact, read the following:
Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts.
I also noticed a part of a quote – in several places – that said, “Never linger too long with the ignorant, throw stones at their talk.”
This reminded me of a biblical verse in Romans that simply says, “Who changed the truth of God into a lie, and worshiped and served the created more than the Creator.” The context is that for this cause God gave them up to vile affects, including homosexuality.
Sadly, presuming these colleges and their teaching to be ignorant, they are throwing stones at the very truth that could set them free, for those who the Son sets free are free indeed.
Soulforce is a sad commentary of a missed opportunity.
___________________
Gary Randall
President
Faith & Freedom
Click here to add these blogs to your email inbox.
39 Comments:
While I am uncertain re: Soulforces blogging/posting policies (I will take Gary at his word here albeit somewhat hesitantly), I once again commend Gary and FNF for allowing genuine and wide open dialogue to occur. I would suggest this element is the one claim FNF to genuinely manifesting Christ - and it is worthy of note.
If God leads me to set up a blog, I can assure that the same freedom will be accorded without limitation of whatever sort. Words and thoughts are not scary - only violence is anti-Christ.
Sincerely,
In Christ,
Human
I decided it was worth a moment to review the Soulforce site myself. The following was found as the posting restrictions on the Soulforce site. I have followed up with my email to Mel who was a founder noting that I regarded his censorship to be unhealthy and requesting that he reconsider.
Inappropriate Content
The following content is not allowed on the Soulforce Forums:
Links to sites containing adult images
Sexual harassment
Anti-Gay comments
We welcome people who are on the journey to understanding and accepting gay, lesbian, bisexual, and transgender people. However obvious anti-gay comments will not be allowed in the public forums. Such comments are not merely opinions, but rather a way to demean and oppress GLBT people. Any posts deemed by the Soulforce staff to be anti-gay will be removed. First time offenders will always receive a warning via private message. Repeat offenders will lose both their right to post messages on any of the Soulforce Public Forums and also their right to send private messages to other members.
Materials promoting "ex-gay ministries" or "reparative therapy"
Some homosexual persons claim to have experienced a change in their sexual orientation. Their stories are their stories and we should not try to change them if they are sincerely happy. With that said, however, the vast majority of these brothers and sisters entered "ex-gay ministries" or "reparative therapy" under the belief of a homosexual orientation being morally inferior and a heterosexual orientation being morally superior. Such a belief is a falsehood that is used by many to deny GLBT people equality in society and full membership in our churches. Thus the promotion of "ex-gay ministries" or "reparative therapy" is not permitted on the forums and will be handled as anti-gay comments.
Posts that are excessively hostile to Soulforce
We certainly make room for forum members to disagree with Soulforce and post constructive criticism. However we don’t permit excessive hostility towards the organization on our own website. Such posts will be removed and offenders will lose their privilege to post messages.
Human's email to Mel:
Mel,
I read with some interest the posting limitations at Soulforce. While on the one hand I appreciate your efforts - perhaps to be sensitive to those troubled by the significant issues they are dealing with - I believe ultimately this is a negative approach. Wide open and completely free discussion (perhaps limiting some "profanity" (or not) ) is the best policy with a resource for how to deal with such discussion. Please note that I am very supportive of your efforts and generally of your positions. However, in this instance, you end up creating a censorship policy that simply is never healthy. I hope you will reconsider.
I should have mentioned that while most Evangelical Religious sites are scared stiff by any criticism or differing opinions, FNF would be a beacon of genuine freedom of discussion. I would lift up FNF as an example for Soulforce and ALL other Evangelical sites to follow.
As I have noted, my goal is righteousness and the Word of God. I believe men and women of integrity can come to mutually win-win terms and that the saints can be particularly a force for good.
Sincerely,
In Jesus Christ the Righteous,
Human
Wow, Human. Are you saying that Gary got something right? Imagine that.
Well I think Gary didn't bother to register an account. I did (they just ask a name and a real email to send the registration note too) and instantly was given the total access:
You may post new threads
You may post replies
You may post attachments
You may edit your posts.
Either he didn't register or he was trying to leave a note in a restricted forum (like the first 'how do I' forum). Having instructional and official announcement forums restricted is pretty standard. Now if he had tried to post in the GLBT News/Issues forum he would have probably had access too.
Hello? Vishanti?? Lights on??
As Gary said, they don't offer the same freedom.
One needn't register to post on Gary's blog. And I trust everything Gary said. And I trust nothing you say.
Gary claims students who are exposed to Soulforce are somehow having their freedoms restricted.
Holding children hostage to one viewpoint is not freedom; it's oppression.
Gary, if you knew in your heart that you are right about homosexuality, then you would have nothing to fear from Soulforce interacting with Christian students. In fact, you would encourage Soulforce to speak to Christians across the country because you would know that by exposure to their message, the truth would be clear.
Gary, what do you have to fear?
In case anyone is interested, Focus on the Family's CitizenLink recently posted a roster of schools being "visited" by Soulforce.
Thanks Mimi ,
I have seen Soul Force work in our area , they are supported by a very political and liberal church in our area .
These folks see no connection with thou shall not kill and abortion , but somehow see civil rights in clauses of our Constitution that are speaking to other subjects .
The mainstream media loves them ..
One needn't register to post on Gary's blog. And I trust everything Gary said. And I trust nothing you say.
And yet I've never told a lie or misrepresented the facts and Gary has - seems you've drunk the F&FN Kool-Aid™.
And I don't think any reasonable person would find that having to register to post is 'layers of restrictions', but then you are probably the same insane 'anonymous' that posts most of the over the top inane notes around here.
An untrusting Christian - isn't that an oxymoron?
This is what you HAVE to agree with , ................
By agreeing to these rules, you warrant that you will not post any messages that are obscene, vulgar, sexually-oriented, hateful, threatening, or otherwise violative of any laws.
The owners of Soulforce Community Forums reserve the right to remove, edit, move or close any thread for any reason.
The sad commentaries are Gary's editorial pieces recently.
I'm not sure what the fascination is with boys kissing but boys have been kissing boys for over 2000 years and the world hasn't exploded. It's probably not going to explode tomorrow either.
I see I was wrong - I can see how the not posting hateful messages would be a significant hurdle for an F&FN supporter, let alone author.
You've made your point.
I know Gary. He is not afraid of gays talking to Christians kids. He's been involved in that kind of outreach when he was a youth pastor. I was in his group.
He is addressing the issue of freedom to disrupt classes and activities on private campuses.
Bob,
That is another issue - were these people genuinely disruptive or were they simply engaging the students in the same way a Christian does on a State supported campus when they evangelize there? I have done quite a bit of the latter at the UW.
Any hard data?
Tim,
I would agree with your point re: boys kissing boys. I am concerned with Gary's focus on what other people are doing with their genitals. There is so much evil in the world and lying and hypocrisy and murder (starting with the Bush admin, moving to the Putin admin, moving to the Chinese gov, Egyptian, etc. , etc. ad nauseum)
I don't mind an occasionally intelligent expose when the homosexual political activity is blatently inappropriate but what about all the other much more heinous activities on the planet. What about the CIA snatching a totally innocent human being and giving him to some country to torture for 6 mos and then dropping him off in nowhere - where is discussion about this evil?????
Sincerely,
In the purity of Christ,
Human
BTW - whenever Gary is honest, I will speak to that. When he is dishonest, I will speak to that. I expect that Gary will do the same for me and I hope he does because I hate dishonesty and arrogance far more than anything else except violence and oppression (which is where the former usually lead).
BTW - I hope any unsuspecting souls will finally get the fact that OV and Human are quite distinct souls. Last word on that matter.
Sincerely,
In Christ,
Human
Human and Vishanti are the same person. That was established a while ago. It is easy to see.
Human and Vishanti are the same person. That was established a while ago. It is easy to see.
Yeah established the way all things are at F&FN - without facts and by divine fiat.
Only a moron would think Human and I are the same person - guess that explains it.
The restrictions on Soulforce's forums (both the Randall account and Human's)seem to be a fairly legitimate point for Randall to make. Personally I find them too restrictive, and wish that they weren't there. Censorship erodes a the capacity for lively debate.
That being said however, Soulforce is well in its rights to administer the forums as they wish. We also don't know the history of the site.
Where they getting flamed by anti-gay comments to an extent that it made civil discourse impossible? Were they getting overloaded with "spam" like comments promoting "ex-gay" organizations and therapies?
Those are legitimate concerns that do justify moderation. I know, I have participated in forums (that have nothing to do with political subjects) where flame wars and spamming made moderation of the forum necessity.
That being said, I do sincerely enjoy the openness of the comments on the FFN blog. I strongly disagree with Mr. Randall, and think that his brand of politics is capable of taking society to a very dark a cruel place; but I do respect him and FFN for allowing dissent on their blog, and would defend his right to communicate his abhorrent ideas in the public arena.
His contention that Soulforce is somehow depriving students at the schools they visit of some sort of liberty however is complete bunk. The visits or protests if you will by Soulforce may disturb the campuses, and are at times illegal; but they are not depriving people of freedom in any significant way.
They are confrontational acts, but they are not violent and do not constitute harassment.
The problem oshtur is that you have lost track of your claims and confused your characters. That happens when people lie a great deal, they lose track of what they say.
Unfortunately for you, even when you are clever about your deceit, you can't hide your underlying personality and some of your traits.
Andrew says:
"His contention that Soulforce is somehow depriving students at the schools they visit of some sort of liberty however is complete bunk. "
You haven't been to college have you Andrew? Do you have any idea what it takes to get there and pay for it? It is overwhelmingly expensive in public schools and almost impossible in private school, thus Gary's statement about the school being built and supported sacrificially.
Soulforce has no business bothering these people.
They most certainly are harassing people. How can you say "Soulforce may disturb the campuses, and are at times illegal"
and then turn around and say they aren't harassing anyone? That is illogical.
Soul Force as many homosexual advocates have, taken great depth and time to develop Bibical talking points to issues relating to homosexuality , sex out of the confines of marriage , etc . The tactic is to undermine a persons belief, they use this on youth ...
This of course while there are no qualified adults of the Gospel and Bible around , and as you can see from their web , no contrastiong opinions allowed or tolerated to provide a different point of view .
As you can see , SoulForce does not respect other Bibical points of view, even they are a minority view.
Actually they have and will ridicule people who believe in the Bible , yet use it the Bible as a tool to promote ONE agenda .
With no regards to the message of Love , forgiveness and the message of Christ as our reason for even being . Soul Force does not promote Christ , they promote homosexuality .. The homosexual belief in Christ is not even important to them ..
24Therefore God gave them over in the sinful desires of their hearts to sexual impurity for the degrading of their bodies with one another. 25They exchanged the truth of God for a lie, and worshiped and served created things rather than the Creator—who is forever praised. Amen.
26Because of this, God gave them over to shameful lusts. Even their women exchanged natural relations for unnatural ones. 27In the same way the men also abandoned natural relations with women and were inflamed with lust for one another. Men committed indecent acts with other men, and received in themselves the due penalty for their perversion
Oshtur Vishanti said...
I see I was wrong - I can see how the not posting hateful messages would be a significant hurdle for an F&FN supporter, let alone author.
Oshtur Vishanti said...
Yeah established the way all things are at F&FN - without facts and by divine fiat.
Only a moron would think Human and I are the same person - guess that explains it.
Ohstur , Besides you calling people a bigot here and the majority of your fellow Americans , for supporting our Marriage Laws , and not advocating I assume for just homosexual inclussion , not polygamous reasons , you would have violated Sour Force rules . You have insulted every Christian I know of here with your stereotyping , your defence is you been insulted also . But coing to a Bibical based We , I would assume finding people who believe in the bible there , one would just gather your intentions are to insult others . We all know your opinions so well we could state them better then you ..
Anon 7:02,
Show me one example where Soulforce has actually stopped students from attending class, or doing school work.
They do engineer and participate in acts of civil disobedience, so they get arrested and pay the price. But that doesn't mean that they harass people.
They are pledged to non-violence, and use the precepts of Dr. Martin Luther King. To my knowledge they have adhered to them.
That doesn't mean that they don't strive to confront what they oppose.
That is an entirely logical, and consistent position. Even if you don't agree with it.
Here is an example of how Soulforce "intrudes" on the freedoms of "people of faith" from the Springfield MO. News Leader:
"About two dozen Soulforce members silently read Bibles along the sidewalk on Norton Road on the south side of the campus for several hours before breaking into a soft rendition of 'We Shall Overcome.'
"About 11 a.m., Abigail Reikow and Brandy Daniels approached the main gate at CBC. They were stopped by a Springfield Police officer and a CBC security officer. After a brief conversation, the women were searched by a female officer, handcuffed and led away behind the school's chapel."
It all sounds very oppressive to me. Thank goodness Gary Randall is here to save us.
Gary,
Could you comment on Andrew's description of the event? It seems that this is not intrusive or disruptive in anyway. How could someone possibly be arrested for reading their Bible (except in a fascist, anti-Christ society) especially at a Bible College.
I am expecting another side of the story.
Sincerely,
In Christ,
Human
FYI- Be careful of what you read from Soulforce bloggers....some were slight untruths, while others are complete fabrications of what happened on these campuses. The term "ingenuous" comes up time and time again. Not to mention, the complete fabrications in their press releases. It's so unfortunate. Why muddy the waters of activism with lies? Sad, really.
It is not a bad thing for our Christian kids to see in reality the poor souls who lives have been so warped so as to have sunk to the depths of homosexuality. It gives them real people they can pray for freedom from bondage to.
It also raises many questions so that they can ask the questions of their Bible study leaders and get more indepth answers so they can pound out their replies and positions while they are in college, and not be subjected to the continual bias of the media once they have graduated. This just may make more solid Christians. Thanks Soulforce!
Anon 11:30
I would tend to agree with you on all points - that is why I am such an advocate for complete and utter freedom of speech and interaction. If "your" Christ is not big enough for you to handle alternative ideas, believes and criticisms, you are NOT worshipping the Lord of Glory seated at the Right Hand of God Himself.
It is critical that such interactions by those professing to be disciples are done with the greatest of genuine humility and love - that is Christ - and that is why the common people heard Him (vs. the Evangelical Right) gladly.
Anon 10:55
I am careful what I read from anyone especially once I have seen them spin and twist the truth as I have seen by the Evangelical Right, by Gary and Jon many times. This causes total loss in credibility as we know that one bit of lack of integrity exposes a deceitful and corrupt heart. The true disciple works to the utmost to maintain a "accurate weight" in ALL matters.
While I suspect that what you are saying may be true, it is merely generalities rather than specifics. Can you provide some specific??
Thanks,
In Christ,
Human
Mick, that you can't understand that 'bigotry' is an objective quality with a specific definition is a quandry.
Yes Mick I can identify someone as a bigot, just like I can that they are tall, or Republican, or whatever. They may not like they fit the definition but it isn't a violation of Soulforce's rules to point it out.
And you are of course blind to all the insulting of gay people you have done in your time aren't you? But you have no problem pointing out the sliver in my eye - didn't someone who's opinion you are supposed to respect point out the hypocrisy of that behavior?
And I'm still curious - how did that 'anonymous' poster get hold of your email to post as a comment?
Funny how since I posted the quote from the mainstream press account of one of Soulforce's actions, and issued a challenge for someone to find a factual example of Soulforce harassing Christian students, none of the conservative Christians have posted anything (let alone taking me up on my challenge).
There is a great reason for that. Randall's accusations, and those of his supporters have no basis in reality.
This post has been removed by the author.
Oshtur Vishanti said...
Mick, that you can't understand that 'bigotry' is an objective quality with a specific definition is a quandry.
I do understand , just as perversion is . according to you , describing you as perverted then
is appropriate for any discussion with you .
Yes Mick I can identify someone as a bigot, just like I can that they are tall, or Republican, or whatever.
I can also then identify you as a pervert , just as I can a democrat , moral , or whatever .
You fit the definition .
They may not like they fit the definition but it isn't a violation of Soulforce's rules to point it out.
I would say pointing out a perversion should then not then be also .
And you are of course blind to all the insulting of gay people you have done in your time aren't you?
not really .. Unlike you , that is something I am not proud of . And that makes you and I totally opposite . Besides your perversion , you live in a hateful world .. The fact your still on this blog , well we all know ..
The fact is you have gone beyond what is acceptable . Your stay here makes no attempt here ever to exchange , its been to harrass. You hide behind an anomyous , say things you never would in public . That is not only perverted , it matches the defintion of cowardly .
But you have no problem pointing out the sliver in my eye - didn't someone who's opinion you are supposed to respect point out the hypocrisy of that behavior?
Bring up Christ , why does evil and perversion always try to bring up scripture to to make a point . The point is always perverted ... You have no concept of the scripture , why it was said , and the spirit behind it .
And I'm still curious - how did that 'anonymous' poster get hold of your email to post as a comment?
That I am not sure even what you are talking about , but my email is available to anyone who wants it .. Its on my blogger information . I do hide behind a comic book fantasy .. This is America, and folks like you have been around from the beginning hiding in the darkness. Light always chases them away ... Thats why your perversion is not accepted in places where you are known as your self .
So I guess , all future conversations with you should be accompanied with an acknowledgement of your perversions ... This I assume is the level you believe is appropriate for discussing on blogs .
I find it rude myself , but talking on your level I guess makes sense to you ..
3:23 PM, March 17, 2007
Andrew ,
Why would a Conservative Christian challenge it ? I don't get it ... Whats you beef ?
Soul Force is a liberal organization using religion to promote their view ..
If it was the other way around you would call them theocrats .. Because you agree with their humanistic belief systems , theocracy becomes your partner ...
Basically it is a private school , paid for by private funds , if you are for separation of church and state , why would you defend Soul Force breaking laws because of their religious beliefs ?
It sounds like they used the old Gandi sit in approach ... Got media attention which I guess is what they wanted .
But remember , the parents are spending much money for their kids to go to that school , makes perfect sense to me why the administratora and parents would not want them there .
I mean its their job to support the parents and kids in teaching them Science, Math , English ,and support a specfic moral and Religious Faith .
There are places and times for Faith and values to be attacked , as yours are I am sure , but going to your school , private or public, or home is not the place , and Soul Force even their blog is not the place for that .. They surely understand that they need to have places where they feel safe and free to speak with retribution .. Cyber Bullying and such .. .
I mean if was the other way around , say a Gay Parade , I would say a bunch of theocrats marching along side talking about hell and sin woud be considered , at least inappropriate by you . I myself would say it was harrassment ,
I am not sure how it changes anything though ?
Intersting example, Mick, I guess you aren't aware that every year Seattle's gay pride parade has at least a handful of Christian protestors, who hold up signs and shout slogans about homosexuality being sinful.
Yeah, and in Philidelphia, there were even some Christians arrested for telling homosexuals what the Bible says about sin, both how destructive it is, and how it can be forgiven.
Talk about hate crimes.
I do understand , just as perversion is . according to you , describing you as perverted then
is appropriate for any discussion with you .
Hmmm you have referred to qualities you know I have as 'perverted' many many times - its one of the reasons its odd you would be concerned with the word 'bigot'. Calling a group that someone is in as 'perverted' when they are standing right in front of you is calling them perverted. Use some sense.
The fact is you have gone beyond what is acceptable . Your stay here makes no attempt here ever to exchange , its been to harrass. You hide behind an anomyous , say things you never would in public . That is not only perverted , it matches the defintion of cowardly .
Projection - those are all qualities you have and project. The only think you can do is use your name and that's because you aren't risking harrassment outside this forum. I've seen it before - use your real name, especially a distinctive one like mine, in a forum with "Christians" and you will start getting hang up calls, an email address crammed with porno spam, and every other harassment possible. In contrast I know your name, your address, and your phone number but would never consider engaging you anywhere other than here.
And precisely what do you think I wouldn't say in public? Since you have brought this up I guess you'd have no problem calling me or others 'perverted' in public - what exactly do you feel is over THAT line that I have ever said?
Bring up Christ , why does evil and perversion always try to bring up scripture to to make a point . The point is always perverted ... You have no concept of the scripture , why it was said , and the spirit behind it .
Ironic words since it is the the Christianists who are the classic models of 'evil and perversion'. As far as 'Judeo-Christian values' I'd compete any day of the week. Reminds me when an Seventh Day Adventist roommate told me he was concerned that I was the nicest person he knew yet I was going to go to hell. ;)
You stereotype me because its the only way you can justify your hatred and persecution. As we have seen you don't have a rational leg to stand on in any of these discussion. Your goal is to promote a theocracy - a government that reflects only your view point and disallows others.
As to your evasive email question I asked about the email sent to you (it had a 'this was sent to [your email address] as part of the message that was posted by an 'anonymous' in another forum. Either you were 'anonymous' or someone who has access to your email was - was just curious which one it was.
And if you want to call me personally perverted when you openly call the group I belong to so it makes no difference to me - one is no nicer than the other.
Yeah, and in Philidelphia, there were even some Christians arrested for telling homosexuals what the Bible says about sin, both how destructive it is, and how it can be forgiven.
No they were arrested for disobeying a police officer.
10:24 AM, March 23, 2007, Oshtur Vishanti said...
Hmmm you have referred to qualities you know I have as 'perverted' many many times -
But you are perverted . You choose to be perverted . It fits the definition . Now perhaps you can justify using the word bigot because someone uses the word pervert . Or the person uses the word pervert because the other uses the word bigot . In the case of your logic , people should have every day conversations using the word pervert and bigot with homosexuals and Christians .. Ok you win . All the people right of Billy Graghm are bigots . All folks left of Andrew Sullivan are perverts .
I've seen it before - use your real name, especially a distinctive one like mine, in a forum with "Christians"
Oh really ... The Martyr , you think victims like you are because they use their real names ? Well if all you did was live with another man I would say you were right on , and in fact defend your perverted butt. Actually I would , actually I have .
No its because you attack the lives , the beliefs of people . I I would never use the words I use with you with another homosexual .. Not because I am nicer then you , but because I respect myself enough to know that individual has merit , he was created in the image of God . You say because a person is a Christian he is a bigot , well on the terms of your use of definitions you are a pervert .
Your right , hide behind an anomyous .Christians never have to worry about being attacked in our jobs , personel lives or our families . Are you in this world ?
Ironic words since it is the the Christianists who are the classic models of 'evil and perversion'.
Gee why people would harrass you in just amazing .. Lets see , now you are bigot and a pervert .. You are evolving .. And you of course have the capacity to see inside another person to know who is a Christianists and who is not , and if someone gets hurt in the sterotyping , well , thats life .
You stereotype me because its the only way you can justify your hatred and persecution.
My hatred and persecution .
. Wow victims have a way of just being victims . You know not what i do , where I live . All you know is I am ticked because you insult people , thats all you really know .
As we have seen you don't have a rational leg to stand on in any of these discussion. Your goal is to promote a theocracy - a government that reflects only your view point and disallows others.
Wow ... That is cool .. You are a bigot ... now the Pilgrims and Plymouth Rock , those folks were a theocracy .. Saying Merry Christmas , Happy Chanuka and allowing a little tolerance for people of Faith has become a theocracy .. ..
As to your evasive email question I asked about the email sent to you (it had a 'this was sent to [your email address] as part of the message that was posted by an 'anonymous' in another forum. Either you were 'anonymous' or someone who has access to your email was - was just curious which one it was.
Not sure , I have been anomyous , sometimes on purpose , sometimes pushing the wrong buttons . But why would you ask me , for what purpose does having a discussion with someone you call a bigot ? Who you actually believe wants a theocracy , which is weird if that is what you really think ..You want a Facist country I guess ? The biggest reason why I would not live in a Theocracy is HUMAN . What happen if his beliefs become law of the land .. Nope I like Freedom of Religion , I like people in general ..;. I just don't like you . I see what you are doing , and you stop discourse , reflection , and perhaps could have even allowed some minds have slowed Gary down in the direction he was going . Sorry , homosexuality is just as big of a thing as you think ..
And if you want to call me personally perverted when you openly call the group I belong to so it makes no difference to me - one is no nicer than the other.
And as I said before , most people would go , wow , that is insulting , I will not do that , and then someone like anyone but you , would say , well I can see why calling you a bigot could bring the level of communication down a level or so .. Kiss , make up .. Talk about issues , share thoughts , but no , you see anyone who oppses a view in a theocracy ? I guess .. You obviously need to get out more ..
you are a coward you know .. Your afraid to admit you were wrong . Or worse , you don't know what being wrong is .
All the people right of Billy Graghm are bigots . All folks left of Andrew Sullivan are perverts .
If you say so. Sounds weird to me but that's how you seem to think. Nice easy boxes for everyone and everything.
You say because a person is a Christian he is a bigot , well on the terms of your use of definitions you are a pervert .
Of course I've said the exact opposite of that but that makes no difference to you does it? There are plenty of Christians that aren't bigots because they recognize the right of others to NOT be Christian and behave in non-Christian ways. We call them Americans.
And you of course have the capacity to see inside another person to know who is a Christianists and who is not , and if someone gets hurt in the sterotyping , well , thats life
Ah but I don't have to see into 'their' souls do I? They empty their bile and hatred into these columns on a daily basis. Real slow, not all people calling themselves Christians are Christianists - they are known by their words and actions.
All you know is I am ticked because you insult people , thats all you really know
Only in response and since people who insult others 'tick you off' you must really have trouble keeping calm enough to shave - you and your anonymous posts are the most insulting here.
Saying Merry Christmas , Happy Chanuka and allowing a little tolerance for people of Faith has become a theocracy
Wow what world are you living in? You are saying the state should deny recognition of other people's marriages because they don't jive with your religion. How in the world do you think that is 'allowing a little tolerance'? Your world is upside down!
And as I said before , most people would go , wow , that is insulting , I will not do that
Ha - one of the first messages I ever read from you was calling others perverted! This blog has a search function - you just rewrite the past to suit your frame of mind.
Talk about issues , share thoughts , but no , you see anyone who oppses a view in a theocracy ?
Sorry Mick, now that I know you post anonymously that opens the door to so many of the totally bizarre anonymous posts that fit your writing style and mental state.
Do yourself a favor - go to the search function and enter 'Mick Sheldon' - read the entries from oldest to newest. You might be a bit more erratic these days but even at the earliest you have been attacking and hateful. That you don't remember this just makes the situation even sadder.
Get some help. Really. More than your religion is messing you up.
Post a Comment
<< Home