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Faith Based Initiative on Trial
The U.S. Supreme Court will hear arguments this week that President Bush's Faith Based and Community Initiative violates "separation of church and state."
The Freedom From Religion Foundation, which says it has 8500 members, is trying to close down a service that has featured local churches and faith based organizations working together to meet the needs of real people with real problems.
Its unfortunate that their extreme position of trying to stop any government recognition of religion is more important than helping people in need who are presently receiving much needed assistance.
It would appear that the Freedom From Religion Foundation is simply a search and destroy mission to eliminate anything religious.
The foundation is also responsible for overturning Good Friday as a state holiday in Wisconsin and for stopping prayers during the University of Wisconsin's commencement ceremony.
John Quincy Adams once said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
President Bush's Faith Based Initiative is a shining example of what our Founders intended and what has made America great.
________________
Gary Randall
President
Faith & Freedom
20 Comments:
Gary quotes JQA:
John Quincy Adams once said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
Human inquires:
Gary, I am a bit puzzled in that, as Christians, we have been called to be in essentially total obedience to the king (Rom 13: et. al). Yet the American revolution is totally anti-thetical to this command of God. How can you also assert that rebellion (see Satan) against God's ordained government (England) has anything to do with Christianity at all?? Isn't this simply JQA justifying his rebellion and sin against God by claiming it was actually Christian - entirely contray to Judeo-Christian values??
Thanks for clarifying this issue.
Sincerely,
In Christ,
Human
While on the surface, Gary's concern seems to have merit, I wonder if there are not significant issues that are not being disclosed. Admittedly, I am VERY unfamiliar with the details here BUT I suspect, as always, the devil (and perhaps God) will be well ensconced in the details.
May I suggest that instead of brief talking points, there is ample room for discussion here.
The reality is, I don't believe anybody is trying to either eliminate religion (although some Fundamentalist Christians would like to eliminate everybody elses religion)or prevent needy people from receiving care. I think it is a methods issue. In other words, these same funds should simply be allocated to organizations that do not have certain discriminatory biases, etc. I hope some people with more familiarity with the FFRF position will share some of the detail and addressing what seem like compelling concerns that Gary is providing.
BTW - I am curious if the faith based organization were Muslim, North American Indian Church (who legally use peyote (created by God)), WICCAN, etc., whether Gary would be as supportive of using public dollars to fund these organizations social welfare activities. Admittedly, I am hard pressed to believe that he would be nearly so eager BUT I remain ever hopeful that hypocrisy is being rooted out and that he would care.
To the FNF staff - I hope you do not see hatred in my inquiries (unless you have drifed into a totally "victim mentality" that any time someone criticizes or even questions you, you react that they are hating you). My inquiries simply reflect the "higher call of Christ" and should all be able to be easily answered.
Sincerely
In Jesus Christ who died for all that some might be saved,
Human
Yes, this issue should be standard study. Links and references to such study should be easily available. It is the basis for our existance as a nation.
For starters, me not being Gary, I would recommend reading the Declaration of Independance. It is quite a disertataion of "why".
It must also be noted, that the Puritans developed quite different theology than their ancestors. They had personal access to the Bible in their own language.
Even though this list could be viewed as partisan, since it came from the Washington House Republicans, this list of Democrat-sponsored bills paints a troubling picture of majority lawmakers' priorities.. .
Giving Maximum Exposure to legislation you should know about!
Do these Democrat-sponsored bills truly
represent the BEST agenda for Washingtonians?
Judge for yourself!
--------------------------------------------------------------------------------
MAXIMUM LEGISLATION
Attacking traditional marriage
House Bill 1350, Senate Bill 5335 - Legalizing gay marriage
Bah Humbug legislation
House Bill 1524 - Outlawing incandescent Christmas lights
Coddle the criminals, hug the thugs
House Bill 1003 - Free condoms for prisoners
House Bill 1473 - Allowing convicted felons to vote
House Bill 1874 - Allowing felons back into the community after serving only half their time
House Bill 2069 - Another early release bill for felons
Criminalizing berry pickers
House Bill 1040 - Prohibits collecting and selling of huckleberries (Tribal members are exempt)
House Bill 1909 - More anti-berry picker regulations
Eroding the citizens' cherished right to engage in initiatives, referenda
House Bill 2018 - Requiring licensing of paid signature gatherers
House Bill 2019 - More regulations on paid signature gatherers
Government-run health care
House Bill 2094 - "Pay or Play" government-run health care
House Joint Memorial 4005 - Government-run universal health care
Increasing the burden against taxpayers (Washington is now the fourth highest taxed state in the nation.)
House Bill 2138 - Automatic, annual gas tax increases
House Bill 2309 - Eliminates the 1 percent property tax limit passed by the people
Senate Bill 5150 - Enacting a state income tax
Infringing upon the Constitutional right of the people to keep and bear arms
House Bill 1011 - Requires an alien firearm license
House Bill 1014 - Regulates storage of firearms
House Bill 1026 - Regulates firearms sales at gun shows and events
Forced political activism
House Bill 2079 - Agency shop fees (Allowing unions to use non-member dues on political activities without permission. Attempts to do an end-run around the pending U.S. Supreme Court decision on Washington Education Association dues.)
Lawyers' prosperity legislation
Senate Bill 5816 - Tort expansion
Requiring graphic sex education to be taught to your fifth-grade child
House Bill 1297, Senate Bill 5297 - Medically accurate sex education
Spending YOUR tax dollars to fund political campaigns
House Bill 1186 - Public funding of judicial races
House Bill 1360 - Requiring taxpayer funded campaigns
Undermining support of our troops
House Joint Memorial 4004 - Anti-war memorial
http://www.houserep ublicans. wa.gov/MaximumEx posure.htm
__._,_.___
Partisan indeed!!!
I suspect there are a LOT more democratic sponsored bills and that the Republican's have craftily and slyly cherry picked those bills that would have maximum emotional impact. Not exactly an approach that uses integrity. As a disciple of Jesus Christ for whom integrity is the highest concern, I find this disgusting.
re: Voting Rights for Felons
a. I believe these people have paid their debt to society - why would they not have their voting rights restored??
b. Many felonies now are not really crimes anymore - they are merely the religous based oppression of so called "vices", e.g.. a very small amount of crack cocaine, would result in a felony - any silly 18yo could get a 5 year stint in a cage (severely damaging their life) because he/she was using bad judgement (just as 18 yos are wont to do). Instead of the mercy and grace to which we are called to, the Evangelical Right community labors to beat the backs of these mostly black young man for their non-violent vices and then arbitrarily defines these petty vices as felonies in the same manner as first degree murder (which really degrades the victims of such heinous acts).
Pathetic when you think about it - still a massive bit of racism here.
Sincerely,
In Him who is gracious and merciful, even Jesus,
Human
Human, I am only an occasional reader but every time I read the comments you are criticizing Gary or the staff or someone trying to create a debate.
Does it appear that Gary or the staff have a "victim mentality"? If they did you would not be allowed to criticize. They wouldn't even have these comments. They can be censored you know. I have read other organizations promoting their agenda and they don't even remove them. If they were not concerned about our country and the way things are deteriorating they would not allow this freedom of expression. Be thankful for your ability to expound.
Anon,
Thanks for your comments. I always appreciate constructive criticism and have specifically revised my posting method in response to a couple of other bloggers here.
I note that whenever Jesus encountered Pharisees He was always criticizing them - for very good reason. Gary typically spins almost everything he writes. "Spin" is a distortion of the truth and intended to deceive. Both of these characteristics are anti-Christ. In light of the call in any disciple's life - "to speak the truth in love" and to reach out in gentleness correcting those who have gone astray, I provide a commentary not from someone who is outside Christ but from a very Christ-centric orientation - that is a difference I bring to the FNF blog. As of yet, essentially no statement I have made which demonstrates that FNF is propounding that which is contrary to scripture has been meaningfully (if at all) addressed. I remain hopeful that instead of being attacked, someone will simply respond to the issues (Larry R has made some effort to do so which I appreciate).
Please note that I have also commended FNF when that has been due and have been open to further understanding.
re: Victim Mentality
This is very common in Evangelical circles (I know because I am involved in this community). My point here specifically addressed a statement by FNF Staff re: "hatred toward Gary" several blogs back that was just posted. I hope that genuine inquiry and concern are not seen as "hatred" - perhaps they can clarify. None of what I have written is anything other than genuine inquiry and concern about departing from the strait way.
I hope this explanation helps make the orientation in my post more clear. I would appreciate a confirmation since you expressed a sincere concern.
Sincerely,
In Christ,
Human
Anon 12:26
BTW - can you comment re: the use of "spin" by someone who presumably is a genuine disiciple of Jesus Christ. Please consider it especially in light of Jesus' treatment by his enemies.
Thanks,
Human
Human
You are a very troubled soul. Is there any way you could stop monopolizing this web site? Honestly, and I know this will come as a shock, this isn't all about you.
John Quincy Adams once said, "The highest glory of the American Revolution was this; it connected in one indissoluble bond the principles of civil government with the principles of Christianity."
Well its just more rhetoric, JQA was a unitarian - many of the issues F&FN supports he would be on the other side. AND once again, the principles of Christianity of support marriage equality, equal rights, truth in the classroom, etc.
Jesus was a liberal!
Human, I know this may come as a shock but I happen to think that you spin many things. I do believe that spin is a distortion of the truth and intended to decieve. I don't think Gary is the one spinning. I happen to agree with Gary most often when you take him on and I don't agree with you most of the time. Has it ever occured to you that are not always right and that your opinion is just your opinion and not always correct?
This post has been removed by the author.
Republican's 'Maximum Exposure'
Humorous - and interesting example of radical spin actually sponsored by the state Republican legislators.
Of couse a number are bipartisan sponsored (you knew that would be true)
And the captions are, of course, deceptive - most humorous is the 'anti-berry picker' regulations which only add huckleberries to the list of commercially saleable plants that can't be harvested in commercial quantities without a license. (remember when it was actually dangerous to go looking for wood morels because of all the people stripping the public lands bare and selling them?)
And as far as prisoners:
trying to prevent sexually transmitted disease by trying to decrease incidences of sexual violence and other measures in our prisons is 'coddling'. Show of hands who thinks that this is an inconsistent with 'Christian principles' bill?
The other bill would delineate just how much of a prisoner's sentence can be considered as parole with the most serious crimes limiting it to 10% of the time AND THE LEAST serious limited to a maximum of 50%. Of course the current RCW 9.94A.728 ALREADY allows 50% parole time but the worst crimes were limited to 15% sentence time! This bill actually tightens the current parole legislation!
And more deception and deceit - just bother to go read the actual bills and see what legislation they are replacing - most make the inflammatory comment listed with it a complete lie.
Obviously the state Republicans aren't even trying to follow any 'Christian principles' with this much deceit - F&FN doesn't support them does it?
(sorry my link didn't work and had to repost)
This is so silly. Human what is it you are trying to do? What you are doing is like talking on and on about chocolate. You have read a little bit about chocolate and know they add sugar to chocolate candy. But you have never tasted it. And the people who have tasted it know you haven't ever tasted it and really don't know what you are talking about.
Just to get back on topic, some of the reservations about faith based initiative are from lack of oversight and lack of confidence in the current administration to to administer such a program properly. In the past the record keeping and accountability have been severely lacking. What records have been available indicate the program was used mostly to gain political advantage (ie: votes). Also, all the money has gone to Christian organizations. While the FFN crowd may not see a problem with this, others will see endorsement (ie: establishment). Also, what oversight ensures that the money won't used for proselytizing. It's not as simple as Gary would have you believe, and it should be challenged and investigated.
Interesting how Human is attacked again and again - all ad hominen - NEVER on substance.
Even the Pharisees tried to come up with substance before they crucified Jesus.
It is funny to see right wing religionist keep using slander, sleaze and spin; when you don't know God or His Word or His Son, I guess that is all you are left with.
Sincerely,
In the risen and living Jesus who speaks the truth
Human
What is really funny is all the overt references to Christianity in our nation's history and the way the libs try to bend and spin and gyrate to excuse all the many references....
For instance....
An act passed by the Congress in 1787 setting aside land for "the sole use of Christian Indians and the Moravian Brethren missionaries, for civilizing the Indians and promoting Christianity."
or
The Treaty of Paris which ratified the peace between America and Great Britain in 1783 which begins
"In the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity. It having pleased the Divine Providence to..."
or
endorsing the Bible in 1782
"Whereupon, Resolved, That the United States in Congress assembled...recommend this edition of the Bible to the inhabitants of the United States, and hereby authorize (Robert Aitkin) to publish this recommendation in the manner he shall think proper."
These are a mere three of hundreds of examples. The lie that our Founders were mostly Diest is based on the fact that a popular church where John Adams is buried was bought by the Unitarian church in the 1960's. They were not Unitarian, or they would never start treaties "in the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity."
And so....let the spinning begin!
Thank you for the post regarding our Godly heritage
The lie that our Founders were mostly Diest is based on the fact that a popular church where John Adams is buried was bought by the Unitarian church in the 1960's. They were not Unitarian, or they would never start treaties "in the name of the Most Holy and Undivided Trinity."
Strawman - no one claims any of the founding father's were diests based on that little factoid. And if you want to know about the Addam's connection to modern unitarianism go to their site and read about it. Of course they will wrap their religious verbiage in the flowery speech of the day, that doesn't mean they would be against marriage equality, stem cell research, equal treatment of all religions or all the other things F&FN is against. Shoot even Thomas Jefferson who didn't believe at all in the divinity of Christ thought the Christian philosophy was inspired.
Quite trying to take anyone mentioning Christianity in anyway throughout American history as if they would be on your side in modern times.
Gary et. al.
The reality is that all this "godly heritage" stuff is irrelevant. It simply does not matter to who we are in Christ - the Kingdom of Christ IS NOT THE KINGDOM OF THIS WORLD. America IS the kingdom of this world.
Time to get back to genuine J-C Values.
Sincerely,
In Christ,
Human
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